CBR650R False neutral/3rd Gear/down shift while standing

[emkay]

Hi everyone,

I’m now riding my CBR650R for 2 Months with about 2600ish Km. I noticed that i have issues shifting down when
having clutch pulled. So basicly i hit some kind of false neutral i guess. But my Gear-indicator on screen does not show any Gear,
it just says: (--), anyone of you also notices this or is this normal? Also i got quite some false neutrals while shifting in the higher revs,
but i guess this could be because i somehow did not pull/push the gear lever enough to get it in. Also my 3rd gear seems to be a bit more
harder to get in (up and down). The whole shifting process is as smooth and not such noisy as i seen other bikes, but in addition to the other
problems with the 3rd gear, when shifting into 3rd gear it's seems to be a lot louder and less "smooth".

Maybe some of you also got the same issues or can provide some explanation for this, cause its kinda weird having a rather new bike with a gearbox that's bitchy and unreliant in it's shifting...

Cheers, Max!

 

[Jluu]

I have encountered the false neutral -- going from 2 down to 1. Might be due to lazy shifting. Clutch in and step down firmer and gets into 1 no problem. I have a quickshifter installed and I believe some people mentioned it might be due to that.

No issues for 3rd gear for me. All up shifts are quite smooth.

 

[emkay]

Sometimes also the shifting from 2 down to 1 when trying to do it as firm and smooth as possible i also land in (--) <-- is this some kind of neutral?
when releasing the clutch very slow i land in 2nd or 1st but don't realease complety due i not want to stall...
So i land in some kind of false neutral (--) and can't shift further from that point on, only when i release the clutch and somehow manage to land in gear.
But this only occurs when standing still having the motor in idle/clutch pulled.

while riding: the 3rd gear is approachable but sounds very loud when and is a bit harder to get in...i guess you could say it's a bit "clunky"

 

[Devilsfan]

Check your oil level, too. Did you do your initial 600 mile change?

 

[emkay]

yes i did and just checked my oil level. Looking totally fine, oil color is also fine.

 

[ray]

check your chain tension

 

[miweber929]

Barring some build quality issue that particular bike has my guess you are not fully moving the shift lever it’s entire range and the bike is not dropping into gear correctly. A lot of people have had issues with where Honda set the shift lever from the factory and it’s a bit high making shifting a clunky affair. Moving it down a few mm may help with that, it’s solved most owners shifting issues.

The fact the bike shows — means it’s not fully in a gear do it doesn’t know what to display. So that’s correct. And those that keep mentioning a “false neutral” between 1st and 2nd are experiencing the actual neutral as designed; it’s not false if it’s supposed to be there, it’s simply a bad shift and you ended up in neutral.

For clarity:

- Is this your first motorcycle or do you have other experience? How long have you been riding? Just wondering if it’s technique more than mechanical.

- I’m struggling a bit to understand everything you are asking and saying. If I’m understanding this, there is discussion of shifting down issues, shifting up at high rpm issues and when stopped issues. And discussion of 3rd gear being hard to get into and noisy regardless of up, down or stopped. Is that right? Is all around 3rd or other years as well.

- Does this mostly happens when stationary and you try to shift from 3rd to 1st? If that’s the case, try shifting while rolling to the stop, no need to release the clutch after every shift. The vast majority of motorcycle transmissions are constant mesh and like to be in motion to shift properly.

- Shifting issues at high revs are almost always technique driven because we are generally rushing shifts at high revs, that’s when we make the most mistakes and get sloppy. Third gear as well just because we rarely stay in 3rd and are usually in second, fourth or sixth.

- Quickshifter installed?

- Describe to me your typical gear change motion. What I do is: preload the shift lever but not hard enough to shift, roll off the throttle, pull in the clutch just past the point it fully disengages, pivot my foot in the direction it needs to go in a swift, firm, precise motion, then pivot my foot back and away from the lever. If I intended to shift to a higher gear I release the clutch lever somewhat slowly yet progressively and roll back on the throttle, all of that a smooth, precise, quick motion; if I went down a gear I add a quick blip of the throttle before releasing the clutch. Is that your motion? The only time I don’t release the clutch is if I’m rolling to a stop and going from say 4th to first, I’ll leave the clutch pulled but will blip the throttle after every downshift.

- Is your clutch cable adjusted properly?

- Has the bike been dropped on the shifter side?

- If think you are having issues, please call your dealer and have them look at the bike. Better to know now then to leave it and have expensive repairs later.

This may be mechanical, it may not be, you have a new bike it should be working as designed. Let’s make sure we get it right.

 

[Eaglemoto]

I am finding the gear shifting on these bikes isnt as great as compared to other Honda's I have owned, you have to be very positive with your gear selection otherwise it wont go into gear properly. Brammers has recommended in the past about adjusting the gear selection lever as that can help.

Re-read what you have said, so you are trying to change gear while the bike is not moving, bikes tend to not like having gears changed when they are stationary. If I haven't changed down gears when braking to a stop, and then try changing them while stopped it can be very tricky. Always try to come down through the gears while the bike is still moving.

 

[Saqib200]

I've only ridden my CBR650R twice, mainly because the weather has been bad since January, and the lockdown. I've had a number of false shifts (say 4), with the dash showing '--'. Has also happened to me whilst quickshifting.

Yes I could/should have given the lever a good shove, but that shouldn't be necessary.

My previous bike (Yamaha MT-125), the test bike, and some others I have ridden have not had this issue.

I think I just have to learn to give the lever a good accurate shove. Will do some more riding when the lockdown ends, and hopefully figure out a way to drive round the issue.

 

[miweber929]

I've only ridden my CBR650R twice, mainly because the weather has been bad since January, and the lockdown. I've had a number of false shifts (say 4), with the dash showing '--'. Has also happened to me whilst quickshifting.

Yes I could/should have given the lever a good shove, but that shouldn't be necessary.

My previous bike (Yamaha MT-125), the test bike, and some others I have ridden have not had this issue.

I think I just have to learn to give the lever a good accurate shove. Will do some more riding when the lockdown ends, and hopefully figure out a way to drive round the issue.

Adjust your lever to the proper position for you and your foot, most people have to move it down a touch.

And to clarify, you shouldn't need to "shove" it, but a firm, precise shift will work, ESPECIALLY with the QS. I am not a fan of them because they make people extremely lazy shifters and you get tons of false neutrals because of it. If you do what I outlined above, it will be a buttery smooth transmission, certainly not a motocrosser tranny or full on sport bike slick transmission, but it should work great with minimal effort.

 

[emkay]

@miweber929, you summarized my problem pretty well.

My shifting: I realease the throttle smooth while pulling the clutch in as synchron as possible, than i just shift by pulling or pushing the lever with my foot till i feel a bit pressure or a clear *click* sound. The bigger problem is when standing still sometimes its really hard to get down in 1st due to landing in (—) or not beeing able to shift any further down cause im stuck in this neutral (—) and the shift lever is also stuck.
3rd gear shifting is just loud and feels clunky...

- No QS installed
- yes it's my first (own) bike

I also checked my chain slack yesterday, i cleaned and oiled the chain. Did a whole check up. Everything looks fine.

 

[miweber929]

Thanks for the info, I’ll break this up a bit.

@miweber929, you summarized my problem pretty well.

My shifting: I realease the throttle smooth while pulling the clutch in as synchron as possible, than i just shift by pulling or pushing the lever with my foot till i feel a bit pressure or a clear *click* sound.

So with this, I’d try pushing or lifting the lever a little more firmly and precisely, don’t mash, kick or stomp on it, but a crisp movement until it has a definite stop to it should help. I’d also suggest adjusting your lever down just a few mm to see if that helps in the shifting, upshifts especially. Make a clear, slower, deliberate shift for a while to get used to what the exact process is before “speeding” it up to a “normal” shift. And try to separate the actions just a bit more for the short term: close the throttle, pull the clutch, click the lever, release the clutch, start to accelerate, etc. to see if that helps.

The idea here is to isolate it to the technique, the bike or the technique on this bike. I know you’ve ridden other motorcycles but every one is different and this one is new, it’ll be a while before everything is meshed together and working perfectly smoothly.

The bigger problem is when standing still sometimes its really hard to get down in 1st due to landing in (—) or not beeing able to shift any further down cause im stuck in this neutral (—) and the shift lever is also stuck.

I went over this earlier but no constant mesh transmission likes to shift without being in motion so try to shift down while still rolling to your stop and click into first just as you are stopping. If you forget and the bike gets hung up, slightly, and I mean slightly, release the clutch lever a little bit and pull it back in to get everything spinning and meshing again, it should start shifting again. A little throttle blip between shifts without releasing the clutch can help as well.

3rd gear shifting is just loud and feels clunky...

I’d give it time; again, it’s the one that’s normally rushed. But if it doesn’t seem right to you, have another trusted rider ride the bike to get their impressions or take it back to the dealer for a check out. My guess, and it’s not you, but if it shifts at all the dealer will say it’s normal and dismiss you. That doesn’t mean it is or isn’t, just how most dealers are: unless it’s broken, rattling, missing or obviously falling apart, they’ll say it’s “normal”. But have it documented if it does fail so you have recourse.

Based on my past experience, and the collective experience we’ve amassed here on the forum, my experience over 40 years with Honda motorcycles, atvs, scooters and cars, if I had to make a guess the shift lever adjustment and a few days paying attention to your shifts closely will help the situation dramatically. Keep us informed of what you find.

 

[emkay]

Thank you for youre effort.
I will try to be more precise with my shifting and will have my bike checked by my dealer...maybe it really needs a little lever adjustment.
I will keep you guys informed. Currently at 2800 Km (*around 1700 miles), I will give you guys a little update when having more Km + what my dealer said.

Cheers

 

[Brammers]

A useful skill to develop on most bike gearboxes is the ability to slip the clutch, as gearshifts like a little power going through the box, but not the full amount.

This is especially true going from 2nd to 1st while stopped at a red light etc.

J

 

[MrFritz86]

Thank you for youre effort.
I will try to be more precise with my shifting and will have my bike checked by my dealer...maybe it really needs a little lever adjustment.
I will keep you guys informed. Currently at 2800 Km (*around 1700 miles), I will give you guys a little update when having more Km + what my dealer said.

Cheers

Just came across this post, and I have to say that I've been having issues as well

I did lower my shift lever to improve the gear engagement when up shifting, this is where I've encountered most of the false neutral from 1st to 2nd.
It happened to me a missed gear when in 3rd, but since I was aware of the fact to put a bit more pressure when shifting. I noticed that I did it wrong by being lazy when moving the lever.

Another thing is that I had to readjust bc I switched from winter to summer boots. Winter being a bit thicker the lever was higher compared to when wearing the summer boots and this changed the way I was applying pressure.

So lower the lever, in this way you'll push a bit more when going up.
Being aware on how the engine and gearbox work, you'll Get used to it, it's just matter of time.

 

[emkay]

Sorry for not replying for quite some time...i was having a good time with that bike. I can now say that the problem was a mixture out of me beeing unexperienced and the gear lever/riding boots not fitting correctly for me. I adjusted the gear lever and put it a bit lower so when i uplift my foot when shifting up i have a slightly smaller range to move with a bit more pressure. Also now iam putting a bit more pressure when shifting down what solved the false neutrals when coming to a stop. Shifting now feels way smoother. Thank you guys for your replies, @MrFritz86 seems like you've been correct this helped me alot!
Peace

 

[MrFritz86]

Sorry for not replying for quite some time...i was having a good time with that bike. I can now say that the problem was a mixture out of me beeing unexperienced and the gear lever/riding boots not fitting correctly for me. I adjusted the gear lever and put it a bit lower so when i uplift my foot when shifting up i have a slightly smaller range to move with a bit more pressure. Also now iam putting a bit more pressure when shifting down what solved the false neutrals when coming to a stop. Shifting now feels way smoother. Thank you guys for your replies, @MrFritz86 seems like you've been correct this helped me alot!
Peace

I’m glad that you feel better on the bike
Enjoy as much as you can from it!
Cheers!!!!

 

[ufen]

Hey guys.

So I have similar issues when upshifting/downshifting. Sometimes the bike doesn’t want to get into proper gear or when upshifting it aggressively lunges forward. I do have the original quickshifter installed. I had an instance where I was giving it some beans in 2nd gear, quickshifted it to 3rd and around 85kph tried shifting it to 4th but it lunged forward and didn’t even get into 4th. I was pretty sure I firmly pulled the shifter. This happened at least 3-4 times with the quickshifter (wasn’t using the lever). The bike is brand new 2021 model, doesn’t have the first service done yet.

 

[MrFritz86]

Hey guys.

So I have similar issues when upshifting/downshifting. Sometimes the bike doesn’t want to get into proper gear or when upshifting it aggressively lunges forward. I do have the original quickshifter installed. I had an instance where I was giving it some beans in 2nd gear, quickshifted it to 3rd and around 85kph tried shifting it to 4th but it lunged forward and didn’t even get into 4th. I was pretty sure I firmly pulled the shifter. This happened at least 3-4 times with the quickshifter (wasn’t using the lever). The bike is brand new 2021 model, doesn’t have the first service done yet.

When it happened, what did you see on the cluster? Was the gear displayed? Or there was a “- -“ double dash?
If the gear was still displayed, sometimes the quick shifter since it’s cutting off the fueling, it makes the bike lunge forward. If this is the case, then the gear pedal and rod need to be adjusted.

 

[ufen]

When it happened, what did you see on the cluster? Was the gear displayed? Or there was a “- -“ double dash?
If the gear was still displayed, sometimes the quick shifter since it’s cutting off the fueling, it makes the bike lunge forward. If this is the case, then the gear pedal and rod need to be adjusted.

I have a video showing how it happened, don’t know how to share it here though.

The gear still showed 3rd and nothing apart from lunging forward happened. I got confused and after a few seconds tried to upshift again and it worked.