All 650's How bad is CBR650 for trackdays?

[fidol]

Hello,
I am about to change my motorcycle for something new, and i'm looking for CBR650F.
I have read, that due to its high weight, and poor suspension, this bike is not good for trackdays (even for amateurs), and i would like to ask You about that.
I am looking for 2015 CBR650F with ABS (its a must have for me!). I have read, that throughtout years of production, this motorcycle has been changed - more powerful engine, better suspension, etc - is that true? If yes, then at what model/years should i look? The option 2022/2023 brand new CBR650R is not an option for me, due to its price (it costs +/- 200% of price for used 2015 F model).
What are your thoughts about that? I am comparing that bike to SV650S K6, which i was using at trackdays, and im wondering if that Honda will be much worse that Suzuki?

PS - Please, don't talk about other bikes - i know, that maybe normal CBR600RR will be better, or even a Ninja 400 for small tracks, but im just asking about CBR650F/650R.
Thanks in advance.

 

[miweber929]

There is no reason a CBR650F or 650R would not be a good track bike. The R series seems like a much larger “update” than it really is: while the R gets inverted forks they are still under sprung, under dampened forks that will need springs at a minimum to get them to a “good” level. It’s a bike series that’s built to a price point and not a specification. The motors are almost 100% identified with very little power difference between the ‘14 and the ‘22 models. The R is more aggressive in seating position and looks but is 90% the same bike just wrapped in new plastic.

And 2019 was when it changed from the F to the R.

Are you looking for a track day ONLY bike or a street bike as well? The SV650 is a good bike, but they are still are price-point bikes so the suspension on them is not stellar. I had an ‘03 SV as a track only bike for a brief time and it was a lot of fun to throw around but I don’t know that any 650F/R would be all that big of an upgrade.

As someone who’s owned a 600RR and 650F I can tell you the RR stock on a bad day is a MUCH better track bike than a fully prepped and built 650 could ever be simply from the fact one was designed for the track, the other is for the street. 2009 and newer RRs have ABS as an option if that’s your deal breaker.

 

[fidol]

There is no reason a CBR650F or 650R would not be a good track bike. The R series seems like a much larger “update” than it really is: while the R gets inverted forks they are still under sprung, under dampened forks that will need springs at a minimum to get them to a “good” level. It’s a bike series that’s built to a price point and not a specification. The motors are almost 100% identified with very little power difference between the ‘14 and the ‘22 models. The R is more aggressive in seating position and looks but is 90% the same bike just wrapped in new plastic.

And 2019 was when it changed from the F to the R.

Are you looking for a track day ONLY bike or a street bike as well? The SV650 is a good bike, but they are still are price-point bikes so the suspension on them is not stellar. I had an ‘03 SV as a track only bike for a brief time and it was a lot of fun to throw around but I don’t know that any 650F/R would be all that big of an upgrade.

As someone who’s owned a 600RR and 650F I can tell you the RR stock on a bad day is a MUCH better track bike than a fully prepped and built 650 could ever be simply from the fact one was designed for the track, the other is for the street. 2009 and newer RRs have ABS as an option if that’s your deal breaker.

I will be using that bike on road as well as on trackdays, but im mostly focusing on trackdays.
I do not own SV650S for now, i had that bike, then sold it, and now im returning to motorcycles after one year break from that.
Im just worried about weight of CBR650F - it weights a LOT compared to sport 600cc bikes.
If You had SV650, then maybe you can help me in that choose - You said that You dont know if 650F will be an upgrade. But, i can also buy SV650 (for the next time) than CBR650F. SV650S biggest advantages are weight, and engine power from low RPMS (say hello to V2 engine). Suspension was bad - and i know that. But is it even worse than in CBR650F?

 

[miweber929]

I will be using that bike on road as well as on trackdays, but im mostly focusing on trackdays.
I do not own SV650S for now, i had that bike, then sold it, and now im returning to motorcycles after one year break from that.
Im just worried about weight of CBR650F - it weights a LOT compared to sport 600cc bikes.
If You had SV650, then maybe you can help me in that choose - You said that You dont know if 650F will be an upgrade. But, i can also buy SV650 (for the next time) than CBR650F. SV650S biggest advantages are weight, and engine power from low RPMS (say hello to V2 engine). Suspension was bad - and i know that. But is it even worse than in CBR650F?

I see you’re saying mostly on track days but like how many compared to street riding? All I mean by that question is if you are seriously going to be focusing on track days over street riding then you should be buying tr k focused bike and not a street focused bike.

What is the style of track you’ll be riding it, slow and tight corners or wide open fast?

My SV was an ‘03, my 650F was a ‘14, the suspension to me didn’t feel all that different. Neither were bad, both were a compromise until I upgraded the suspension on my 650F and then it was good. Not nearly as good as the Ohlins on my Ducati but still decent.

A V twin does have a lot of grunt off idle and in the mid range but if your track is long and fast a 4 cylinder is the way to go.

You’re splitting hair on which bike is better, both will be a compromise as neither are track focused. The Honda is heavier but unless you’re a super aggressive, or very skilled rider, it isn’t going to be making the huge difference you think it will.

My suggestion:
If you’re really going to be more track than street, go with a track designed bike. If your tracks are short, tight and twisty, V-Twin. If they are longer and faster, 4 cylinder. If you are a good rider, heavier or lighter weight than the average person then you’ll need to do suspension on either bike.

 

[baugustine]

@miweber929 is spot on above (as usual 😎) . I too have owned both bikes (650F and 600RR). The other factor not discussed above is your riding skills. When I first got my 650F I was a rider that had moderate (street) skills, and no track experience. The 650F would have been fine. Many thousands of miles later and several track days under my belt I would not take a 650F to the track as I got spoiled with my 600RR and would just be disappointed. Thats my evolution of riding and how precise a track-focused bike actually is in its natural habitat. (See my avatar pic on the left).

 

[NickD]

I can only speak from my experience: so here goes. I got a 2019 cbr650r at the beginning of 2020 with no real plans to take it to the track but I tried it out at a track day and had a blast. Granted it was my first ever track day but realized this bike was a good training tool for the track (power-wise). After a few more track days and Yamaha Champ-School on the bike I found myself wishing I had a more track focused and faster bike. HOWEVER....I only have space for one bike in my life and still like to ride on the street/commute. An r6/636/600rr was not going to be a good option for city/commuting so I decided to double-down and mod the crap out of my cbr650r to make it as fun at the track as possible and now I have a bike that can do it all. Is it a great track bike? No. Do I dust up on 600s at the track all day long due to practice and proper skill? Yup.

If the track is your focus, I don't reccomend the 650. If you want a bike that CAN do it all....not a bad choice in my opinion.

 

[NickD]

I can only speak from my experience: so here goes. I got a 2019 cbr650r at the beginning of 2020 with no real plans to take it to the track but I tried it out at a track day and had a blast. Granted it was my first ever track day but realized this bike was a good training tool for the track (power-wise). After a few more track days and Yamaha Champ-School on the bike I found myself wishing I had a more track focused and faster bike. HOWEVER....I only have space for one bike in my life and still like to ride on the street/commute. An r6/636/600rr was not going to be a good option for city/commuting so I decided to double-down and mod the crap out of my cbr650r to make it as fun at the track as possible and now I have a bike that can do it all. Is it a great track bike? No. Do I dust up on 600s at the track all day long due to practice and proper skill? Yup.

If the track is your focus, I don't reccomend the 650. If you want a bike that CAN do it all....not a bad choice in my opinion.

Should also mention upgrading suspension is a must (and not cheap).

 

[Ravana]

I've taken my 14 on one of our local tracks Summit Main a few times. The bike is fine. I don't know your riding abilities however if you are new to track days you have nothing to worry about on a 650f. It may be a long while before your skill outpaces the bike's abilities. If you are looking for an excuse to upgrade or buy a second buy just buy one.