CBR650F Won't start

[KermanRider]

I'm new in this Forum, and own a 2016 CBR650F. I crashed my bike in 2017, the clutch cover case took the damage and cracked. I replaced the housing and the bike wouldn't start after that. I took it to a recommended mechanic in town, and after 3 months having it in their shop they said it was the computer and kill switch. Recently the clutch burnt out and I rebuild the clutch pack using upgraded disks after feeling the OEM quality. Installed the clutch cover, and cracked engine, and didn't start. Kickstand was down, in neutral, pump was turning on, have spark, but wont start. I thought it probably had to do with the tip over sensor, but read that the fuel pump won't turn on if it was bad. I doubt the solution is the kill switch and computer because I never recieved a work order bill from mechanic and they had accidentally thrown the old parts away. Is there a trick after replacing the clutch cover case or did I miss somthing after opening up the system.

 

[Brammers]

Would not start. Ok.

What does it do when you try?

If you got the stator on wrong, it could be a flat battery due to lack of charging. The 650s don't like flat batteries at ALL.

more details please!

 

[Devilsfan]

Welcome to the forum, KermanRider!

What Brammers said...a little more info. Are there any codes showing on the gauges?

 

[baugustine]

If you have spark, fuel and compression it will start. That is just physics. Go back to the basics and make sure you have all three at the cylinders and report back so we can help troubleshoot.

 

[KermanRider]

Thank you for the responds and welcome. Due to the lack of detail, here's what the bike is doing. I turn the key ignition to on. Kill switch to the start position. The fuel pump goes through its priming process. I have the battery hooked up to my car battery to eliminate a low crank. I checked spark, compression, and fuel delivery. Out of the 3 fuel delivery is missing. I cranked the engine with the air filter housing off and there's no signs of fuel. The fuel is fresh. When I crank for long periods of time I check the dash for the check engine light to appear and start blinking. However the check engine light does not stay on or blinks. I wet a rag with fuel and put it next to the air filter and bike runs on the rag fumes. Again this happened after I removed the clutch case housing to rebuild the clutch. All bike fluids are at their correct levels as well.

 

[baugustine]

What is cranking fuel pressure?

 

[KermanRider]

What is cranking fuel pressure?

What is the best way to check cranking pressure?

 

[Brammers]

I'm thinking a good old fashion blockage in the fuel lines?

Or the injector cable is lose/broken? (but that should have triggered a MIL code)

 

[Brammers]

Certain there isn't water in the bottom of the tank?

Drain the tank and refill to be sure.

 

[KermanRider]

Certain there isn't water in the bottom of the tank?

Drain the tank and refill to be sure.

Certain there isn't water in the bottom of the tank?

Drain the tank and refill to be sure.

I'm am not sure, but that seems most likely to be the problem after checking the electrical system and all components had the correct voltage. I'll drain the fuel and blow out the fuel lines. Should I remove the inside and clean them out too? I'll inform about the results tomorrow. Appreciate it.

 

[Brammers]

Just drain the tank and blow the lines. Take baby steps so we know where the fix was.

 

[baugustine]

What is the best way to check cranking pressure?

Section 7 of the manual.

 

[KermanRider]

Hope everyone had a good day. I got home from work and removed the fuel tank drained the fuel. Removed the fuel pump and submerged into a bucket with clean gasoline. Gave direct power and ground to pump and hissed but no fuel came out. After giving it direct power in five 10-seconds intervals the pump finally pumped fuel. However it came out brown for the first 3 seconds. Opened up the pump/sending unit and discovered the suction screen had high amounts of contaminants. Blew out screen using brake clean and compressed air. Put pump/sending unit back together and repeated the process and the amount of fuel the pump was delivering was fair. I installed back into tank and Installed tank back onto bike. Added fresh fuel and went thru the starting process. Bike still did not start. Removed fuel rail and gave injectors direct power and cleaned out with brake clean. Installed back into head. Still no start. I do not have the proper equipment to verify cranking pump pressure. So I disconnect fuel line from tank to rail and pointed it into a bucket. The amount of fuel being delivered at the pump prime was okay, but while cranking there is no fuel being delivered. I went ahead and checked spark once again and now I have no spark. I have come to the conclusion that the mechanical side of the bike is not the problem. I will trace the injectors and spark plug wiring harness and make sure the computer is not at fault. Again all i did was rebuild the clutch and didn't start after that.

 

[Brammers]

My money is on a wiring issue of some kind, having ruled out fuel delivery.

I've never heard of a 650 ecu going bad.

 

[ducatiman]

Again this happened after I removed the clutch case housing to rebuild the clutch.

Housed within the right side CC cover is the crank position sensor (CKP in Honda speak)
Could it, or its associated wiring, have been somehow disturbed within your repair process?

 

[miweber929]

So that I’m understanding this issue, after the crash the bike was FULLY repaired by a qualified tech and I can assume it is now in a pre-crash state? Nothing is cobbled, buggered, taped, slapped, bypassed, different, etc. than it should be? All wiring and equipment is intact, functions and it’s where it should be?

Also for clarity, the bike ran perfect after the last repair for a while, right? No coughs, hiccups, farts, burps, it randomly shuts off, etc? You have a decent amount of time and miles on the bike after the repair?

Now let me ask about the bike and why you replaced the clutch. How many miles on it? Was it slipping? Had a bad feel? Do you wheelie, stunt, race or otherwise abuse the bike to cause a fried clutch in a 3 year old bike? I’m not bashing on you for any of that, I’m trying to long distance troubleshoot with no visuals so I need to know my playing field.

Now let me ask about outside variables. It hasn’t sat outside under a tarp for a year or outside uncovered for 6 months, right? When was the last time it rode and started fine?

What EXACTLY, and I mean EVERYTHING, was done to it leading up to clutch replace, rebuild and no start? Levers, windscreen, turn signals, anything replaced, checked or damaged? Anything non stock?

Please explain your steps replacing the clutch pack. What brand did you use? Did you use a service manual? Anything go together funky?

What led you to look at a tip over sensor if the bike was running fine previously? Was it tipped over since the crash?

And for my last interrogation question, anything else you want to tell me? Even insignificant, anything not right? Can you give me your best guess on why the first time you tested you had spark and no fuel and why now you have neither?

So if you said you replaced the clutch cover and it didn’t start, I’d start having you look at the pickup coil in the clutch cover. On the RR it’s easy to put in wrong (can’t remember if it’s upside down, backward or flipped) and the F engine looks to be the same design:

https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2016-honda-cbr650f/o/m157881#sch946578

But if you pulled the cover off, and didn’t replace it, my guess is that’s not it.

And I’m troubled by sludge and debris coming out the pump (why didn’t the screen catch it) and the debris filled strainer on a 2016 bike. Did you clean, and I mean soak, and even ultrasonically the injectors? They plug VERY easily, if crap got into the system that could still be an issue. Any idea why it’s so filthy in there?

Let me ponder a bit, and get back to us with the above requested info, let’s go from there.

 

[baugustine]

@miweber929 wrote above what I was thinking after I read your latest post. What led up to clutch pack replacement? I still recommend you go to the local parts store and get an inexpensive fuel pressure gauge. As you saw aleady, you spent an insane amount of time chasing fuel delivery issues that are easily identified with a gauge. Rule #1 if you are going to do your own technician work:

TEST, DON’T GUESS...

 

[Drewster123]

When you put the kill switch to it's correct position for starting hold on full throttle while cranking it over for 5/ 10 seconds.

 

[Brammers]

It's unlikely to be flooded if it can't deliver fuel D @Drewster123

 

[Drewster123]

My bike would not start one occasion after putting it back together after the install of the pair valve blanks, I read online somewhere that it resets something doing this , so I tried 3 times for about 6 seconds and eventually it come back to life. It was something electrical